Teaching kids about when refs cost you a game

**Alan#35** · 02-21-2012, 10:36 AM

I think the focus should be taken off of "fault", even in discussions away from kids. Even though kids don't see you physically bad mouth the refs or reffing, they will pick up on attitudes and those attitudes will carry over. No good can come from it.
Some things everyone needs to realise about refs:
-they aren't going to change, no matter what you say, think, or do. These same discussions have been going on since minor hockey came to be. There's a reason many refs seem to be the same, and only the odd ref seems to be fair.
-if you're dealing with young refs, they are learning the game too.
-if your kids' team loses, it's not the end of the world.
-when you benefit from a poor call, I would imagine you don't complain too much.

As for the initial post, I will say this: if a ref loses sight of the puck but he knows it's in the crease somewhere, he's already blown the whistle in his mind, probably 1 to 2 seconds before you hear it. So it may seem like an eternity, but to the ref it's a split second. A ref's first duty is to the safety of all on the ice. I don't have to remind anyone here of the Clint Malarchuk event. That is of course just about the worst case scenario, but it's every ref's worst nightmare to have something like that happen. With a bunch of young kids hovering around the crease, skating in and out and poking/slashing at the puck, it's still a very real possibility that someone could get very seriously hurt, so it's in everyone's best interests if the whistle is blown as soon as the ref loses sight of the puck, even with the game on the line.
(I know the Malarchuk scenario was of no fault to the refs, but it's a good reminder of how sharp skates really are and how quickly a catastrophic injury can occur)
I've blown the whistle quickly when losing sight of a puck only to have the other team whack it in less than a second after my whistle went 3 times already, and have no regrets about it. When that puck is out of sight, the whistle blows. I probably make it worse because I keep my whistle close to my mouth, and being a goalie, the goalies I ref generally get a very quick whistle.

If you're in a one ref situation, just remember that the ref is trying to watch 12 people out there on the ice, for a wide number and variety of infractions. Once he/she sees an infraction, he/she has a second to decide if it was serious enough to warrant a penalty that could potentially cost one team the game. My favourite line came from a ref during a game. The player said "You're going to call that in the last minute???" To which he replied, "A trip's a trip boys."

If you're in a two ref situation, a lot of times if they don't communicate before the game, they won't know who's jurisdiction a penalty falls under. Some refs play a half and half scenario, while others play a "my zone I watch the puck carrier, back ref watches in front of the net and far boards" scenario. This type of communication comes with time.
But keep this in mind: if a ref doesn't call a penalty within the first 1 or 2 seconds of seeing it, the bench and parents of the infracted team start yelling immediately. If that ref then puts his/her arm up even if the ref didn't hear the yelling from the bench or fans, the other team will have something to complain about. We all know this scenario: "Who's calling the game, you or the other team??" So the less the team and parents/fans complain, the more likely a ref will put his arm up 2-4 seconds after seeing a penalty, and the fairer the game becomes. Remember, once the infraction takes place, it takes a bit of time for the ref to process it all.

I've been the recipient of horribly officiated games, and there are certainly people out there that shouldn't be refs. But I always think back to when I first started out, and how nervous I was to call a penalty, or even an icing. I once reffed with a new ref who didn't call a single penalty in the entire game, where I called 8 (5 - 3). Lots of those were right in front of him, but no arm went up. It's a process to learn, and the younger the ref is, the harder it is for him/her. But as long as nobody's getting hurt, the ref is doing his/her job, and I think we can all agree that that's what's most important.

Anyways, I hate to do this. I know it's nice to vent, I just felt the other side deserved some representation. We work pretty hard, and generally are seriously underpaid for what we have to do and deal with.

**Jim Bob** · 02-22-2012, 06:35 AM

FYI, this was a two ref situation and the ref that blew it dead was in perfect position.

Our coaches could see the puck was loose from the bench.

We have no idea how the ref lost sight of the puck and blew the play dead.

And as far as getting hurt, they misses a few of those calls as well (including something that I was told by one of the senior refs in our district was a point of emphasis this season for safety of the kids). The one penalty that they did call was when one of our kids got drilled into the boards and didn't get up.

And as far as underpaid goes, don't talk to a volunteer coach about being underpaid as a ref.

**Alan#35** · 02-22-2012, 08:30 AM

What I'm saying is, those are the things to keep in mind before jumping to conclusions. Sometimes a bad ref is just a bad ref, and that's the way it is. I can't defend all of us, but I tried :D

I stand by my underpaid statement though. Coaches may get guff from the parents from time to time, but refs get it from parents, coaches, players, and senior refs, and the tone and level of conversation generally isn't worth the $17 - $27 (Depending on what level you're reffing)

**Jim Bob** · 02-22-2012, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Alan#35

What I'm saying is, those are the things to keep in mind before jumping to conclusions. Sometimes a bad ref is just a bad ref, and that's the way it is. I can't defend all of us, but I tried :D

I understand that she was a young ref that has room to grow.

But, part of growing as a ref/player/coach is making mistakes, learning from them, and getting better.

I don't see why refs shouldn't be criticized if they blow a call. Especially on an anonymous web forum.

We lost because we blew coverage on their best player twice. We lost because we didn't beat their goalie more times. We lost because our goalie didn't find the rebound on the GWG and because our D didn't win the race to that rebound. I have a feeling that we may have won had our head coach not made the one lineup change that he made between playoff game #1 and this game [he moved the RW from the line that was on the ice for both goals against to D and a D to RW].

Lots of people were "at fault" for why we lost. The ref blowing that one call, especially was the most frustrating is all.

But, I did love the refs we had at my beer league game last night even if all they gave the other goalie was a minor for slashing one of our guys in the head after he gave up his 5th goal of the game.

**MrsBoz0309** · 02-23-2012, 06:18 AM

We just played a game like this last weekend. My son and his team were heartbroken. We were leading in the first period and then a bunch of missed calls ranging from offsides to blantent hits lead to a loss. Those close, hard played games are hard on the team.

**Hockey School Dropout** · 02-24-2012, 08:24 AM

My problem with refs is in beer league when something happens 5 feet in front of them, and when you ask them about it they all claim "I didn't see it". The best was about a month ago, I was a skater, and my D partner cross checks their player from behind. Ref raises his arm (absolutely!). The guy gets off the ice, turns around and - no joke - leaps at me and elbows me in the mouth. Being pretty short, having someone have to leap to hit my head is quite rare. I looked at the ref who had his arm up for the first penalty, and he didn't even have his whistle anywhere near his mouth and the other team now had the puck. Lucky for the other guy he had a couple steps on me, but I chased him for about 5 seconds until I realized the play was still going! The whistle finally went, and I asked him why he didn't call the elbowing penalty, that was DIRECTLY in front of him. "I didn't see it" was the response. Naturally I was livid and started yelling at him (not the correct response I know) about how he could not see something happen 5 feet away. One of my teammates talked the other ref into giving a penalty. The guy who DID NOT see it happen ended up calling the penalty.

That is the biggest problem I have with refs. That and the ones who simply just do not know the rules. I've had many conversations with refs over the years since I started my team, and every time I've gone back to them with the league's rules to show them I'm right. Naturally, it changes nothing. Most of the refs around here have some sort of ego/power-trip issue, and will never admit they are wrong, even when it is right there in black and white.

I do understand they are human and prone to mistakes, so am I - lots of them. But at some point you have to get off your high horse and listen to reason and accept and admit a mistake has been made. I'd be far more forgiving of their errors if they would a) admit their mistakes (even if they can't change it on ice) and b) make an effort to change in the future.

**Alan#35** · 02-24-2012, 11:05 AM

"right there in black and white" hehe I got a laugh at that :)

Not seeing something right in front of you is too common, and as a ref it sucks when this happens. The problem again is one ref trying to watch too many things at once. It may seem like his/her head and eyes on are the situation, but many times they are looking right past you at something else. You are not the only one on the ice.
Another problem that I've noticed: I'll see a collision or incident out of the corner or my eye (so not see exactly what happened) or hear a big collision or something, and of course this grabs my attention so I turn my head to look. Because the ref doesn't see the initial penalty outright, he/she can't make the call. Of course, the player who was fouled looks at the ref, sees the ref looking at him/her, and then wonders why there's no penalty. That player doesn't understand that the ref wasn't watching when the incident happened, but instead sees the aftermath. This should also explain why retaliations are called more often than initial penalties.

As for refs not knowing the rules, yes this is a problem. Refs are responsible for knowing all the rules and enforcing them. There is no excuse.

I will say that if a ref admits that he/she was wrong on a call on the ice, the players will then take it upon themselves to question every call. Players need to realise that they will get nowhere when questioning calls, and need to just let the refs do their jobs. The less complaining we hear, the easier it is to make the right call, believe it or not.

With that being said, if anyone questions me on a rule, I will always go back to the rulebook and read up on it, just to make sure that I was right, and if not, that I don't make a wrong call again in the future. It is our obligation to do this, and any ref that doesn't do this shouldn't be reffing.

As for Jim Bob's comment, you highlight a problem that will never be resolved. You say lots of things were at fault for you losing the game. Why is there then a thread only dedicated to the useless ref that blew the game?
If you think refs don't get criticized, you are mistaken. I once had the joy of walking into the ref room after a Junior B game, where the head referee for the league was chewing out both refs and linesmen, pointing out their every mistake, and showing them each rule, and explaining why each mistake was terrible, and how to correct it. He was extremely blunt about it all.
If you're a ref in minor hockey, you are being critiqued.
And yes, you are free to criticise referees in an anonymous forum, as I am free to defend them. I can't defend us all, but I hope I can give you some insight into our mistakes and perceived problems.
I'm not saying that my explanations apply to every ref, I'm just telling you my experiences in the wonderful world of reffing.

**Hockey School Dropout** · 02-24-2012, 03:00 PM

I didn't notice the pun. That is funny.

My problem with the incident I mentioned was it happened within about 10 seconds max. The ref saw the other two players jostling, and one get cross-checked. With the play still nearby and another ref watching the play, why would he look away? And I was facing the ref as he called the penalty so I was in his line of vision, as I only saw the player elbowing me out of my peripheral vision. My point is that he HAD to have seen it, but instead of calling the elbow chose to let it go. I pointed out to the other ref the inside of my lip was bleeding, and responded it didn't matter because it wasn't a high stick. Pardon? How about "intent to injure"? The guy had to jump to hit me, and at least 4 guys on my team mentioned it after the game. Not only should he have had a major, he also should have been subject to supplementary discipline from the league. But, since all he got was a minor - and barely at that - nothing else happens.

I have had refs admit to me a couple times they messed up by missing a call, or making a blatant incorrect call. As long as I get the explanation, I'm good. In the past I have emailed the league convenor and head official to point out the good experience. I would prefer the refs act human rather than some omnipotent being. :)

Kudos to you for being one of the good ones who tries their best.

**Jim Bob** · 02-27-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Alan#35

As for Jim Bob's comment, you highlight a problem that will never be resolved. You say lots of things were at fault for you losing the game. Why is there then a thread only dedicated to the useless ref that blew the game?
If you think refs don't get criticized, you are mistaken. I once had the joy of walking into the ref room after a Junior B game, where the head referee for the league was chewing out both refs and linesmen, pointing out their every mistake, and showing them each rule, and explaining why each mistake was terrible, and how to correct it. He was extremely blunt about it all.
If you're a ref in minor hockey, you are being critiqued.
And yes, you are free to criticise referees in an anonymous forum, as I am free to defend them. I can't defend us all, but I hope I can give you some insight into our mistakes and perceived problems.
I'm not saying that my explanations apply to every ref, I'm just telling you my experiences in the wonderful world of reffing.

Who said the ref was useless?

Who said that refs don't get critiqued?

I started the thread for a few reasons:

A) Kids blaming refs after the game is pretty universal.
B) I was hoping that the discussion would be about how to approach a universal problem.
C) I wanted to vent in a safer manner than being an idiot that goes after the ref in person.

This was far from the worst officiating job we saw this year as a team. It was just the one that had the most on the line and had the most "game changing" questionable call.

And again, this isn't about the refs as much as how do you approach the issue of when a call affects the game and you have kids complaining about the refs, what should we do as coaches and/or parents?

Feel free to try and defend the refs. But, I'd rather focus on what to tell the kids to get them off of blaming the refs.

**Alan#35** · 02-27-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

Who said the ref was useless?

Who said that refs don't get critiqued?

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

I don't see why refs shouldn't be criticized if they blow a call. Especially on an anonymous web forum.

I took that as "If I don't criticise the refs, who will". My mistake.

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

I started the thread for a few reasons:

A) Kids blaming refs after the game is pretty universal.
B) I was hoping that the discussion would be about how to approach a universal problem.
C) I wanted to vent in a safer manner than being an idiot that goes after the ref in person.

A) From the minor that I've seen and done, it's generally the parents and coaches criticising the refs that is pretty universal. For the most part, the kids seem to be pretty quiet and willing to follow the refs calls, when they're younger anyways.
B) This is not what happened.
C) Is this not a safe place to vent? Feel free to vent all you like, but expect someone to have a differing opinion or perspective. And I thought this was about addressing an issue

Anyways, I will try to articulate my thoughts a bit more to gear them towards addressing the issue.

My whole purpose here is to provide you with some understanding about blown calls and what goes on behind the scenes and in the mind of a referee, so that perhaps you can pass that on to the kids who are blaming the refs for blown calls costing them the games, to try to invoke a bit of understanding on their part, so that in turn perhaps they decide not to channel their frustrations and anger at the referees, but instead focus (positively, always positively!!) on themselves and their own game, and determine what they can do to achieve better results. You can only control yourself and your own actions, and any energy expelled at other people in a negative manner on how they should improve themselves is wasted energy. There are enough people in the stands that will let the ref know he/she's made a mistake (Including the head referees), the players should have other things to worry about. Perhaps you can borrow Coach Alain Vigneault's attitude about that blown icing call that cost the Canucks that Dallas game: "Yeah it should've been icing, but it's how we responded on the ensuing faceoff that cost us that game." (That's not the exact quote, but you get the idea) Acknowledge it, but don't focus on it, don't dwell on it, and don't blame it for the final outcome. Teach those kids that a game is 60 minutes, and a ref only generally affects a small portion of that, so any mistake turns out to be a large percentage of the ref's small portion, but on the whole, just a very small portion of that 60 minutes.

The refs are just as much apart of the game as any player or coach, and everybody makes and will make mistakes, regardless if they are the best hockey player in the world, coach of the year, or head referee. When a ref blows a call and the team loses, the ref then becomes the manifestation of that loss, and an easy target to focus on and project anger towards. I think that as a coach, it is not your job to teach kids this life lesson of not assigning blame to the most convenient symbol, or even to any symbol. All you can do as a coach is lead by example: don't lose your cool, and always assess the situation as it comes your way, as opposed to focusing on what could've or should've been. As a parent, I would probably say the same thing: to lead by example, to not overreact, and to not assign blame because assigning blame is the easy way out (As goalies, I think we all know this).

A small example of leading by example: for my first ever reffing game in minor, I came walking into the arena in the middle of a midget C game, and I hear some yelling from the crowd about a terrible call, then some swearing, then some name calling. Finally, the ref (He was older and experienced) turned around and said "Who said that?" The guy stood up and said "I did!" so the ref said "You're outa here" and he left, with much yelling and cursing. Not only did I feel bad for the kid, but what do you think the son of that guy is going to be like when dealing with refs in the future? Not only with refs, but bosses, and typically any type of authority figure? So as a parent, I would say teaching kids about refs blowing a call is not just about refs blowing a call, but a much larger area of life.

If after all that I've said, you have no ideas about what to tell kids about refs blowing a call, then I'm sorry I couldn't help.

Teaching kids about when refs cost you a game

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

LinkBacks (?)

Teaching kids about when refs cost you a game

Similar Threads

Kids Goalie Gear

Teaching kids how to skate

Artificial Ice: where to get it and how much will it cost

40 Game Suspension for Kids that skates from the Blue line to hit player in corner

Come back kids, do it again! - Go Canucks Go!

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions